"there is obviously a problem.
may we talk?
do you realize that if you say no, you may be rejecting the creators help?
ADCMS wrote:
I'd think He'd at least go "old school" and burn a bush or something. Geez.
LOL. It seems that Yahweh has lost his touch, or perhaps is on holiday and has outsourced his communications to a third party vendor. But beware, those notes crammed in the door-jams will soon turn to earthquakes and fireballs from the sky. But, not to worry. Jehovah won’t bring any floods over the earth, because rainbows are his promise.
did anyone notice that large portions of the july 15, 2011 mentally diseased article is being read word-for-word in the 2013 disctrict convention symposium talk beware of human apostates?.
if you havent already see this thread which contains an actual recording.... the moron in the recording is actually reading directly from the watchtower article... word-for-word... yet another perfect example of information control found in most destructive cults... .
by the way, did anyone also catch what he said about those who woke up after the 1975 fiasco.
That talk is an example of the methods in which Jehovah’s Witnesses are systematically trained. The method of “spiritual feeding” is: read – retain – recite.
Questioning the “spiritual food” or even the way it is dispensed is described as “prideful”. This is why most JWs cannot really think through or reason on the inconsistencies, contractions, and outride fallacies of their beliefs.
As an example, an interesting experiment is to ask a JW if they have ever studied all of the archeological proof that humans have been on earth for at least a million or so years (contrary to their belief of 6,000). The kind of canned, clichéd responses you get is very telling; and are characteristic of someone who has not even looked at any of the evidence, but has been TRAINED what to think on the matter.
The same holds true for their beliefs about "God's channel of communication" here on earth. What rational person would pick up the New Testament and interpret Jesus' words to apply to a 20th century printing operation headquartered in Brooklyn; had they not been indoctrinated to think so?
"there is obviously a problem.
may we talk?
do you realize that if you say no, you may be rejecting the creators help?
Simply send a reply to the individual that says: "My creator told me to tell you that your creator is full of crap".
symposium: beware of apostates!.
satanhuman apostates also of interest ..... the truth brings "not peace, but a sword" .
Wow JWB, you brought up so many excellent points! One thing you wrote that really jumped out at me:
It seems to me that the WTS cannot really point to any significant in-house 'kidnapping'. So who is not leaving whom alone? The WTS is trying to create an air of ever-present danger that isn't really there. If JWs choose to go to 'apostate' sites and then start to question the WTS teachings, whose fault is that? There is no great danger from within, as it appears most of those having serious questions tend to keep their doubts to themselves, not wishing to attract the attention of the elders and then possibly facing a judicial committee. In my opinion, the GB have known for a long time they can no longer police the actions of JWs like they used to.
One thing that most Jehovah’s Witnesses don’t comprehend is that the visible “in your face” apostates who actively confront JWs (either door-to-door) or at conventions via picketing; comprise about 1% of all “apostate” ex-JWs. I personally know, or have met approximately 150-200 ex-JWs who don’t believe it anymore. Of that number, I know of only 3 people who either picket conventions, or try to engage JWs at the doors. The rest of them have actually moved on for the most part and are busy in other affairs, with little interest in trying to engage JWs in debates.
According to the Watchtower’s definition of apostate, I most definitely am one. I have had numerous opportunities to engage JWs who came to my door, or who approached me in street work. I simply smile, nod, and say “no thank you”. And so do most of my ex-JW friends. Yet the Watchtower would have their members believe that I am “mentally diseased” “wicked”, and “heard-hearted”. This is one of the shocks that JWs encounter when they leave the organization and attend their first apostate meet-up. The “monsters” are not really monsters at all, but are for the most part simply wounded humans.
symposium: beware of apostates!.
satanhuman apostates also of interest ..... the truth brings "not peace, but a sword" .
jam wrote:
This kind of talk is only hurting the borg it,s hateful. They are
doing more damage to themselves. By harping on Apostates, it
only draw attention to what the hell is all this fuss about Apostates.
Yes, very good point jam. I have often wondered how the writing department can be so counter-intuitive and so blatantly stupid as to constantly highlight and draw attention the very people they DO NOT want people to pay attention to.
I do agree that these kinds of fire and brimstone talks are just marginalizing Jehovah’s Witnesses more and more. What was going through the minds of the people who are casually interested in checking out the convention? (i.e. studies, return visits, people invited by a JW coworker). These talks scream out the word “cult”.
What is going through the minds of all of those JWs who are secretly beginning to sense that they might be in a cult? Does this dissuade them, or persuade them that their intuitions might be correct?
This was the kind of paranoid rhetoric that made me begin to ask myself: why would The Truth; the very pinnacle of supreme wisdom be so afraid of dissenting opinions? Why must it be shielded from examination and critique if it is so superior? To put it in perspective, would a group of astrophysicists be afraid of their fellow physicists talking to a “flat-earther” in the fear that the flat earther might mislead the physicist with his lies? Hardly!!
So, why are they so afraid of dissent? I think you can liken this to a robber who is in a shoot-out with police and runs out of bullets. Out of desperation, he throws his gun at them. This is how the Watchtower is reacting. They’re out of ideas, and are lashing out in all directions. The last days has now entered upon 100 years old with all of Russell’s, Rutherford’s, and Franz’s predictions completely failing. The Watchtower is trying to remain relevant in an era where more and more people are calling their bullshit.
At this point, their teachings merely serve as crowd control.
well i went to a "special meeting" in the armadillo today where a 2 & 1/2 hour programme was relayed from london at 1pm.
apparently the letters of invitation only went out a month or so ago and not all congregations were invited.
there were 2,900 of us from around scotland.
DOC quoting me:
Twenty years from now, there is going to be large numbers of people who begin to wake up and realize just how wrong the GB’s stance was on college. Being stuck in exhausting, low paying work with little satisfaction and few options - while still waiting on Jehovah - will move people to begin to seriously question the “wisdom” that they put their faith in.
DOC’s follow-up comments:
Twenty years from now my @$$!!!!!!!!!!
That is not some future development -- it is reality today!
Yes, very true; but if you read my entire post, you’ll see that I alluded to Witnesses presently going back to college due to the difficulty of not having enough education. I had also alluded to people in their 50’s and 60’s having very difficult times right now due to never attending college. Twenty years from now will merely be another generation of JWs suffering the same fate.
If I may, I've taken the liberties of including a link to the Sylvan Learning Center’s programs on reading comprehension:
http://tutoring.sylvanlearning.com/reading_tutoring_programs.cfm
If that one doesn't work, I've also been generous enough to include a link to material on “Reading Comprehension Tips for Dummies”:
http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/asvab-reading-comprehension-tips.html
Though not as robust as Sylvan’s programs, the Dummies manner of presentation may be more appropriate
western traditioneastern orthodox traditionoriental orthodox traditionassyrian eastern traditionbooksprotestant.
[o 1]roman catholicgreek orthodoxslavonic orthodoxgeorgian orthodoxarmenian apostolic.
(part of 4 esdras)no.
This thread is not being commented on by believers.
I believe. I believe that a talking snake coaxed the first humans into eating a piece of fruit which cast humanity into a state of condemnation . . . and the Creator of the universe caused rain to cover the whole earth, while preserving each one of the species of animals and humans in a huge wooden box . . and that the Creator of the universe had great concern over matters such as male genitals, their hair length, and women’s menstruation; and he told generals to go kill entire populations including infants . . and held the sun still so that one of them could win a battle. . and wrote his laws on pieces of stone for a group of people wandering in the desert. . and that the son of God died so that what those humans brought about by eating that fruit could be reversed. . and that the Creator of the universe had all of this put into a special book for people to be saved from the condition brought about by the first humans eating that fruit. . and that those who do not believe in this book shall face eternal jugement.
What is there not to believe? Sheesh!
well i went to a "special meeting" in the armadillo today where a 2 & 1/2 hour programme was relayed from london at 1pm.
apparently the letters of invitation only went out a month or so ago and not all congregations were invited.
there were 2,900 of us from around scotland.
The Governing Body can discourage and condemn college all they want, but reality is going to eventually catch up to them. Twenty years from now, there is going to be large numbers of people who begin to wake up and realize just how wrong the GB’s stance was on college. Being stuck in exhausting, low paying work with little satisfaction and few options - while still waiting on Jehovah - will move people to begin to seriously question the “wisdom” that they put their faith in.
I have seen many Witnesses realize in their 30s and 40s that they simply must get more education; and even sacrifice a meeting night to attend a local college. Rank and file Witnesses are not shielded from the evolving global economy in the way that the Watchtower leadership is. They must daily confront the realities of living in the world AS IT REALLY IS; not some idealized fantasy world. The arrival of Jehovah’s chariot has been “just around the corner” for a century now. This has not escaped the notice of many people who are realizing that there are many people around them in their 50s and 60s who are suffering very difficult consequences for having listened to the “end is near” drum beating by the organization 40 years ago.
The GB can no longer hide behind the nebulous term “Faithful and Discreet Slave Class” anymore. They have now put themselves out front and up on the pedestal as the GOVERNING body. When these stupid policies of theirs come to fruition, and people realize it was all wrong, they won’t blame it on some amorphous class of people. They will now have names and faces to go with them.
as reported from a recent co visit talk: .
the man with the inkhorn is picturing the governing body, who has the task of marking people for salvation ezek.
9:2,4.. it used to be christ's brothers, the remnant, the anointed, and you better help them* or be a goat as per the math:25 judgement.
I wonder how many recent publications will have to be updated? I wonder what publications will be dropped as current information, out of date?
Quite a few, I’d say. The Revelation Climax book will have to undergo some editing for sure. Not that it makes a lot of difference anyway. Most Witnesses don’t understand half of its material. Of the material that is comprehended, it’s so dull that it’s quickly forgotten and supplanted by “what should I cook for dinner tomorrow”, or “what are these charges on my Visa statement?” This is why I don’t believe that significant doctrinal changes arouse a lot of attention from most Witnesses. They’re minds and energies are too consumed with just dealing with mundane everyday life. “Let the organization lead the way” seems to be the coping mechanism for most Witnesses. Hopefully the tides will begin to turn.
as reported from a recent co visit talk: .
the man with the inkhorn is picturing the governing body, who has the task of marking people for salvation ezek.
9:2,4.. it used to be christ's brothers, the remnant, the anointed, and you better help them* or be a goat as per the math:25 judgement.
There should be no mistaking how the governing body views this organization now. For all intents and purposes, it isn’t really a Christian congregation anymore. It’s actually a fully functioning government – a religious oligarchy, complete with central planners, extensive laws, law enforcement, and docile citizens.
But here’s where they just may get hoisted by their own petard. In times past, the organizational emphasis on the “Slave Class” gave the leadership a bit of an amorphous mystic to it. But now with increased organizational emphasis on the Governing Body (i.e. July 15 Watchtower) as the exclusive liaison between God and man, there are actual names and faces to it. Most JWs know the names of and recognize the GB members. What happens now when future mistakes and bad judgment comes to light? You can’t blame it on some faceless, mysterious group called the “Slave Class”. It’s now a tiny number of distinct, identifiable men who have taken it upon themselves to step up onto the “God’s channel” pedestal. I’ve heard that pedestals get rather wobbly.
